Can you have a true understanding of the 80's if you didn't live through them

I vote no.
You can't have a true understanding of the 80s if you didn't live through them. I work with alot of young people (early 20s) they like some of the music but they don't really understand the them.

I voted no on this. It is hard for someone to truly understand the joy and satisfaction we all got out of the 80's without living the moments like we did. Yes, it is easy to love the music, watch the movies, etc., but that is only a small part of the big picture.

I voted No also... I can like some of the styles and music of the 60s, but could never fully understand it... I LOVE the 70s as well as the 80s... and I can say that I don't fully understand the 70s since I was so young.. (born in 73)..

The 80s ruled!

Originally posted by Caligula
Can you have a true understanding of the 80's if you didn't live through them

No, I can't.

Originally posted by Tinajo
The 80s ruled!

I totally agree!!! :)

I doubt I could understand the '60s or '70s as much as my parents could...since I was either not yet born or too young (I was born in 1970).

No.

Like most things in life, you have to experience it to truly understand it. Not that other can't appreciate or even like the 80's, but, as the saying goes...you just had to be there. ;)

Sure. I feel like I have a fairly good understanding of those times. It's like the old saying goes: "Times change, people don't" :)

I voted no. :)

I am a fan of music from the 40's, 50's, 60's and early 70's (and earlier) but I can't truly say I "understand" the time periods. It is fine and dandy to like the culture but to truly understand it you must live through it. The late 70's and 80's are the times I grew up so I can't help but love that time period. I guess I'm voting "no", boy we sound like old fuddy duddies :lol:

Interesting question, Cal. I have a deep connection with the 1960s, although I did not live during that time period. Something about that era fascinates me, but I have studied quite a bit about the era. Still, I don't feel that I can fully understand the time since I was not around. Luckily, I did live through the 80s and have a complete appreciation for that wonderful time. :)

No, you can't fully understand something that you haven't lived through, be it good, bad or indifferent. You can have an appreciation for it but that's as far as it would go.

No, most people that I know that haven't lived though the 80's, sadly, have no idea what they missed.
They might like some of the music, but when it comes to fasions, fads & culture, it really does their head in :confused: I feel sorry for them in a way because they really missed out I reckon

ten totally awesome years! :banana:

NOTE: I'm talking about the 90's children I know personally, not the younger 80SXCHANGERS on here, please don't take offence by what I said ok :thumb:

I lived through the entire decade of the 70s, but because I was young (only 3 years old in 1970), I never really connected with the music, fashion, and culture that make up the 70s. Now the 80s, on the other hand, I embraced everything about the decade. In 1980, I was 13 years old; definitely able to decide what I liked and disliked about the time.

I don't care what anyone says, you can never have a complete understanding of anything, unless you have been personally associated.

I'm born in the beginning of the 80s, trust me it's like saying do you understand the 70s without living through them but you can discovered them but definetely I voted ''NO''

I voted NO! You can "feel" like you understand the 80's, but in my opinion, you can't trully understand what the 80's were about unless you experienced that decade for yourself.

Definitely a big no... you can get plenty of information and get an academic understanding, but unless you've experienced it first hand, ya don't truly know.

It's like theory vs practice.... theories are nice and give you a basic understanding, but unless you've actually done it and experienced it, you can't truly know...

I'm quite pleased by my understanding of the 80's, even though I was 6 years old when they ended.

No. But that doesn't mean you can't love what came out of it and appreciate it.

No way. You have had to live through it to totally get it :cool:

I voted "no" as well. For all the same reasons mentioned. :)

Originally posted by Roemello
Definitely a big no... you can get plenty of information and get an academic understanding, but unless you've experienced it first hand, ya don't truly know.

It's like theory vs practice.... theories are nice and give you a basic understanding, but unless you've actually done it and experienced it, you can't truly know...

I agree with you, Roem! :thumb:

No, there's no argument. This goes for any decade. I was lucky enough to be a teen in the 70's and in my 20's in the 80's, so I got to experience and enjoy both decades. Even though I was 9 when the 60's ended, I will not say I have any understanding of what people's mindsets were like in that time period, or what it was like to live through it. I was NINE, for Goddess' sake, what the hell did I know about life? So please, Capt. Jackson....tell me how you garnered the feel for the 80's when you were six! :lol:

There will be those who will say they have an understanding of the era, but I'm sorry...unless you were there you have no idea! Unless you stood on your feet applauding Judas Priest on the "Screaming For Vengeance" tour...unless you were listening to the radio when they announced Bon Scott or Cliff Burton died....unless you drove in your car on the way to L'Amour to see Twisted Sister for the 40th time as they made the rounds in NY....unless you actually felt the air of fun that prevailed through the decade, the sense of "everything's a party"....unless you went to a Poison or Bon Jovi concert not just to see the bands, but to also see the gals hanging out there, knowing that if they couldn't get backstage to see the band you were the next best thing cause you looked just like the band....unless you woke up to some of the most infectious pop ever played on the radio.....you didn't live it, and your understanding of it is about the same as reading in the history books about the Civil War....end of story

So...the old croanies are speaking up on this subject so time for yet another opinion from one of them :lol:

I was born in 1962...I've lived through 4 decades...as Alan said, child in the 60's, teen in the 70's, got to party through the 80's...I still don't fully understand them.

The 80's were a great time..I don't know why I'm so stuck on them...the clothes, the music, just the way that life was in general. We could cruise the main strip and park out at the shopping center...at least everyone knew where the kids were.

Now..you can't do that and they're all getting into trouble most of the time or becoming young parents.

I'm glad that there are so many younger generations (geez...I just really made myself sound old :) ) that are interested in the 80's... I wish that they were able to go and live at least 6 months in that time so they could have the opportunity that us old geezers did ;)

In fact, you live though 5 decades including this one! Am I right?? Like me, i'm born in 1983 so I lived in the 80s, 90s and currently! ;) I don't know if that count because we are just only 3 years in that decade!! It's very special to beginning a new number, 19-- was better, 20-- looks so sci-fi... anyways!!

Oh gee...thanks Jefferson :lol: 5 DECADES? HOLY ****!!!

I say yes. Even people who DID live through an historical event, ANY historical event, may be too emotionally attached to it to really put it in proper perspective themselves. It might take a more objective person with no such attachments to come along and weigh different perspectives fairly.

The ideal is a first-hand account by an objective person, but I'd say there are not as many of those around as one might think.

Absolutely Cartoon_Chris :)

I just know that there is a difference between experience and understanding. Whilst I may not have experienced the 80s as most of the nay-sayers, I do have a true understanding of that era. Actually, now that I think about it, could the poster of the question define what "true understanding" is? What does true understanding entail? Experience is over-rated. I think it is only part of what makes one understand (heck! some people don't even learn from experience :p). Here's an analogy: If you experience gravity, do you have a true understanding of it? If you do, then you should be head of the physics dept. at my university (we need people like you!). When you listen to music at a concert, do you know how sound waves travel through air? Or water? Or in a vacuum? If you've been in a thunderstom or hurricane, do you know the physical forces that drive it? If you eat, sleep, and breathe, do you know exactly how your body performs these functions right down to how amino acids are synthesized, how neurons work, how oxygen is taken in by the body to produce carbon monoxide? If your answer to these questions is "no," then how can one say that it is experience that makes up "true understanding"? I don't think so. True understanding takes a lot more than experience. It takes the ability to apply one's own knowledge and be able to sympathize and empathize. Experience is only a miniscule part of what I would think true understanding is.

Nay-sayers do not speak for me ;)

"I don't even speak your language" - Bender to Sporto.

That's all well and good, XXX.....but when you get right down to it a man can have all the understanding in the world about sex, be as well read and informed about the subject as possible, but unless he got his d*ck wet he's still a virgin. ;)

(hope you all will forgive the crude analogy :p)

That's exactly to a word what I was thinkin Pagan... :lol: Everything you mentioned there XXX is academic knowledge... most of which has little to nothing to do with understanding the feeling of mentioned events.

For instance, the concert thing... I'm willing to bet very few give a half a crap about sound waves and all that. A true parallel would be to say you could read about the feeling and emotion of a concert from a review, but unless you've been to the concert, you can never know what it was really like.

Same with the hurricane analogy... unless you've been through a hurricane first hand, you can never truly understand what it's like to be through one.

So in that same breathe, if you didn't live through the 80s, you can't fully understand the time as it was.

EDIT: Oh yeah.... I got another personal parallel... I never understood the big deal about wrestling events live.... I always figured the best seat in the house was in my home. Wrong. The energy and excitement being in the crowd is something I would have NEVER truly known unless I'd experienced it first hand.

There's no such thing as overrated experience... that's what life is all about.... experiencing things.

So, to understand something truly one must know the feeling. Okay. What was it that people in the 80s felt that was different and unique which separates them from other eras? Experience is over-rated when it comes to reaching a true understanding of anything - since one relies on nostalgia and emotion which are not very objective and not very true. For example, just because I didn't get to go to a Judas Priest concert back in the 80s doesn't mean that I don't have an understanding when it comes to the experience of going to rock concerts in general. That I did not get to follow a fad back then doesn't mean that I didn't follow a fad later on. I watched the television re-runs. There were wars back then. There are wars now. Economy went up and down, up and down. Kids went to high school and college in the 80s. It's still happening now. People got laid then. It's the same story now. That people experience nostalgia of their own lives... well, I experience some nostalgia about my own experiences. My point is: there was nothing unique then that would separate the people who lived out their decade from another - except for the fads, the trends, and the music... and we all have those things at our disposal to get a true understanding of the decade :) Long live the 80s.

No, until you have first hand experience of something, you can only relate, not understand.

I voted no. You cant truely understand anything without experiencing it. You can have knowledge but not understanding.

Originally posted by XXX
There were wars back then. There are wars now. Economy went up and down, up and down. Kids went to high school and college in the 80s. It's still happening now. People got laid then. It's the same story now. That people experience nostalgia of their own lives... well, I experience some nostalgia about my own experiences. My point is: there was nothing unique then that would separate the people who lived out their decade from another - except for the fads, the trends, and the music... and we all have those things at our disposal to get a true understanding of the decade :) Long live the 80s.


XXX....you have just crystalized the point perfectly. You don't have an understanding of the 80's. This comment proves that beyond any shadow of a doubt.

Before you tell me I'm thinking about it with emotion and being biased....remember what I said in my first post. I was a child in the 60's, a teen in the 70's, and in my 20's in the 80's. All three decades had their uniqueness, but there was a feeling in the air in the 80's. I can't fully explain it, but anyone who lived through then knows what I'm talking about.

You are focusing on the material things, the music, the fads and the trends. I'm talking about the general atmosphere. I mentioned in my post about getting together to all go see Twisted Sister at L'Amour. Kids today to go to the same club every weekend without a care who's playing. They don't go to clubs period. I know, I'm still playing them myself. It used to be in the 80's that each club had it's regular crowd. You'd see the same faces every weekend. Everyone got to know one another.

For example, just because I didn't get to go to a Judas Priest concert back in the 80s doesn't mean that I don't have an understanding when it comes to the experience of going to rock concerts in general.

First of all, you can't compare the concerts of the past decades to todays bands. The concerts in the 80's were spectacles, not just concerts. You can't compare a Creed concert to seeing Dio slaying a 20 foot tall dragon onstage during "Sacred Heart".

You might have an understanding of the experience of a concert, but where you there when the maniacs in the audience ripped out all the seat cushions at Madison Square Garden and started throwing them around like frisbys? :lol: I can't even explain what that was like, to see THOUSANDS of seat cushions flying through the air and seeing Halford laugh his ass off onstage watching it.

Of seeing Iron Maiden play NY for the first time as an opening act, and walking home afterward hearing EVERYONE talking about this awesome new band.

Or going to a dumpy, tiny club in Yonkers to see a band from England called Raven, and seeing their opening act, a bunch of kids from SF calling themselves Metallica.

You found these bands and they became your bands. You followed them, you were part of the scene. You could go to any park or playground and there'd be HUNDREDS of kids hanging out, drinking a few beers and listening to music. Tell me where you see that now? I drive past the park I used to hang out in, and it's deserted.

To go off on a different road....that's like saying you have an understanding of D-Day because you watched the opening scene of "Saving Private Ryan". In a word....bullshit.

I've seen over the years that the only people who say that experience means nothing are those who haven't experienced it. ;)

It's like Arnold Swarzeneggar said in "Twins" ....

"All theory, no practice...."

Originally posted by Pagan:
All three decades had their uniqueness, but there was a feeling in the air in the 80's. I can't fully explain it, but anyone who lived through then knows what I'm talking about.

Very well put...I KNOW exactly what you're talking about. I didn't experience the same things you did in the 80's, Alan, and you didn't experience what I did..but there's something there that is in a way..unexplainable. :)

Originally posted by Pagan



XXX....you have just crystalized the point perfectly. You don't have an understanding of the 80's. This comment proves that beyond any shadow of a doubt.

Before you tell me I'm thinking about it with emotion and being biased....remember what I said in my first post. I was a child in the 60's, a teen in the 70's, and in my 20's in the 80's. All three decades had their uniqueness, but there was a feeling in the air in the 80's. I can't fully explain it, but anyone who lived through then knows what I'm talking about.

You just talked about "feelings" again. How can one have a true understanding when one can't "fully explain"? I respectfully disagree - completely - I hope that is okay. Good topic, though.

When you watch VH-1's "I love the 80's" and they talk about Clara Pellar uttering the words "Where's the beef?". You may know what the commercial is, but you don't remember seeing it first hand and remembering how BIG it actually was. When you hear the phrase "Who shot JR?" you may think you understand, but you can't imagine how BIG a cliff hangar it was without being there and seeing "Who shot JR" games in the store or "Who shot JR" songs on the radio. Everyone knows Regan was shot, but without watching the 24 hour coverage of it when it happened, you have no idea how BIG the impact was on all of us. When Lennon was killed, it was horrible, but you don't understand the effect that had on us first hand. Without being there when the Challenger exploded, you can't imagine what that was like either. You've all seen the video for "Girls just want to have fun" but you just don't understand how excited that I and all the kids at school were after seeing Captain Lou Albano in a video for the first time. You can't imagine how great it was to see some of the movies in the theatres, like Empire strikes back and Return of the Jedi. (not the remade versions of a few years ago, it wasn't the same). It's hard to imagine but when I was in high school people settled arguments with fists and not guns. You had to be there to understand the safe feeling.

I think it's great that the younger generation loves the 80's too, but without living them, it's hard to say you understand. I've heard all about Pearl Harbor but bet I would have a greater understanding if I was alive then.

You're entitled to your opinion XXX. But remember that it is just that...an opinion.

I've read every book and article possible about Woodstock. I've seen the movie...I have the CD. But for the life of me I'd never try to tell someone who was there that I "fully understand" the experience. I never got the mud in my toes and felt the waves of Hendrix, Santana, Jefferson Airplane or the rest washing over me as I sat on the lawn. In short....I'd be clueless if I thought I did.

I've seen every movie about the first landing on the moon. I watched it on TV when I was a kid. Can I tell you what it was like to step out of the module and take those first steps? Can I fully understand that? Nope....

Do you think you understand the severity of what happened on 9/11 more than someone who was standing a few blocks away, watching the people jumping right before the Towers fell? I was only a few miles away, and I wouldn't tell you I have the best understanding even though I have seen every scrap of information on the subject.

Can you tell me that you know what it's like and fully understand how it feels to stand onstage and have a few hundred people cheer for you? Until I did it for myself I could only imagine, and once it happened in reality it was NOTHING like what I imagined.

I couldn't imagine trying to tell someone I fully understand something unless I felt every aspect of it. Your description of "fully understanding" is clinical at best. You can't seperate yourself from the emotional aspect of experiencing something and say you truly understood it. You may understand the scientific or technical aspects of it, but the full impact of an event is not truly understood unless you're in the thick of it. Any historian will tell you that about what they study.

To me, the 80s was definately an experience. The world was slowly becoming a GLOBAL place. People were becoming aware of the world around them. Racial devides were falling, homosexuals were becoming something that wasnt hated everywhere, AIDS made people talk about sex, MTV made people realise with LIVE AID that there were people around the world who were starving and dying, and that the world should help them. So many things changed in the 80s that made the world both a more unified place and somehow a more devided place. Its hard to explain. Wanna see the difference in people from the 80s and today? Watch the first season of the Real World and compare it to the show today. Both with young people, but back them (granted it was the start of the 90s) these people were conscious of the world around them, and how it was changing and how they related to each other. Today, its "what can I get for myself". People are just different now, and partly because of all the strides we made in the 80s and early 90s to become a better society, people forget about a lot of that, and what happened.

Notice how much the phrase "I can't explain it" is being used. See, we can't explain it in words, we just know because we all lived and experienced it. We have an understanding of it. It's a combination of alot of things. Fads, trends, music, culture, entertainment, lifestyles, current events, MTV, the way we talked, styles, decor, attitudes, etc... EVERYTHING about it.

Pagan hit the nail on the head with the WTC & Woodstock examples. No matter how much we read about it, hear stories or look at pictures, unless you were there, you will never understand what it was like to go through that up close and personal.

But..everyone is entitled to their own opinion and since I know XXX personally, I know for a fact he will never change his mind about this. :D

Originally posted by Pagan
I couldn't imagine trying to tell someone I fully understand something unless I felt every aspect of it. Your description of "fully understanding" is clinical at best. You can't seperate yourself from the emotional aspect of experiencing something and say you truly understood it. You may understand the scientific or technical aspects of it, but the full impact of an event is not truly understood unless you're in the thick of it. Any historian will tell you that about what they study.

That's right. It's a difference in point of view. Even to-day, I could attest to the fact that we can experience the same thing and come out with completely different opinions because we sense and perceive as individuals - not as a collective. I didn't live as Pagan in the 80s, I can't have Pagan's full understanding, his truth. Therefore, I must view things objectively - clinically - stand back and view as a spectator and be able to relate as best as I can from what I learned, experienced, and understood. It is the objective way. Now, I can't deny the fact that emotions do play a part in understanding something, but at some other time I have felt similar emotions which I can then assume others in the past must have felt. Happiness has always been happiness. Sadness has always been sadness. Thrill, suspense, fear, love, angst, anticipation... we're all human. We've all felt these feelings at one time or another.

Another analogy would be in mathematics. You have 100 sumations to do. You can either work them each one by one or you can figure out the pattern and develop a formula which you can then use to solve subsequent - and past - configurations. Life is complex, but can also be as beautiful and as organised if one is to speak in general terms, form a general understanding, and sometimes achieve a true understanding. I think even if I did get to live out in the 1980s in my teens and twenties, I would still be able to look back and form the same conclusions because "I yam who I yam."

Oh man. I love this topic a lot! I've logged in quite a bit lately :) You guys rule!

Originally posted by PoisonGirl234
Notice how much the phrase "I can't explain it" is being used. See, we can't explain it in words, we just know because we all lived and experienced it. We have an understanding of it. It's a combination of alot of things. Fads, trends, music, culture, entertainment, lifestyles, current events, MTV, the way we talked, styles, decor, attitudes, etc... EVERYTHING about it.

Pagan hit the nail on the head with the WTC & Woodstock examples. No matter how much we read about it, hear stories or look at pictures, unless you were there, you will never understand what it was like to go through that up close and personal.

But..everyone is entitled to their own opinion and since I know XXX personally, I know for a fact he will never change his mind about this. :D

I love you, Babydoll :) "I can't explain it," but you know what I mean ;)

Originally posted by XXX


Now, I can't deny the fact that emotions do play a part in understanding something, but at some other time I have felt similar emotions which I can then assume others in the past must have felt. Happiness has always been happiness. Sadness has always been sadness. Thrill, suspence, fear, love, angst, anticipation... we're all human. We've all felt these feelings at one time or another.



This is true....to a certain degree. I have been scared shitless in my day. There were times I thought I was a goner and was frightened out of my wits. Could I possibly imagine what it was like waiting on that troop transport heading towards the beach in Normandy, knowing that the minute the transport door dropped everyone in front of me would be killed and I'd have to run up the beach amidst machine gun and mortar fire? No chance....

I've been as happy as a person can be, but can I tell you what it feels like to hold my newborn son for the first time? Nope....

I've been thrilled beyond belief, can I tell you the rush a person gets sitting in the space shuttle as the countdown reaches "1"? Nuh uh....

It's all relative, my friend. ;)

BOTTOM LINE:
YOU JUST HAD TO BE THERE :)



*Remember how excited everyone was when the rumour was floating around that KISS might let the world see them without their makeup?

*Did you watch the last episode of M*A*S*H* ?

*You spent hours trying your luck at TRIVAL PURSUIT---when it first came out?

*When MTV was celebrating their first birthday?

*There were these new guys on AMERICAN BANDSTAND...the band's name was BON JOVI singing RUNAWAY.

*It was safe to go riding in a car with guys you had just met...all you did was go out to the country to drink some beer or cheap wine...............and TALK!

* KEG parties at someone's house in the country..the music was blaring from car stereos...

I voted no, and all my points have already been very well made by others. You had to be there to really get it.:)

NO

agree with all the no comments already, if you didn't live through it, you can't understand it. Living through it day by day, you didn't know what the future held

I think Daffy said it best!! Great examples!! XXX, It's totally awesome that you love the 80s! You rule, dude!! :thumb: Everyone has great points... I of course am still with the majority on this one! You can't fully understand the 80s unless you had been there firsthand.

No.

If for no other reason, because then was so much different than now, or than any other period in time. Things we take for granted now didn't exist then, and vice versa.