I dont know why everyone around here moans about Metallica being better in the past, because the black album and load kick the ass off Kill em all.
I used to hate Metallica after i had heard Kill em all, but one listen to the black album convertedme.
There new albums are much more polished, proffesional and have a all round better sound.
Couls someone explain why you think they were better in the past?

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Dude, where do you want me to start? Even though I think the Black album is excellent....Load? LOAD??? They could not have named it better, cause it's a load alright. Have you ever heard "Master of Puppets"or "Ride The Lightning"? Metallica was better in the old days because they weren't little MTV darlings who sold out their sound for money. They didn't have to alter their sound, they were making more than enough bucks being who they were. But lo and behold, the MTV band-killing machine got ahold of them, and next thing you know there they are...sitting in the audience at the MTV movie awards!

My only advice to you is this, my friend...go get "Master of Puppets". If, after listening to it, you truly think Metallica is better now than they were then, I won't even bother arguing, because then it will simply be a matter of taste. However, anyone who has an ear for the hunger that makes a metal band great knows that Metallica has lost it. You said it yourself in your post, they sound more polished. "Metallica" and "polished" should never be in the same sentence.

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[This message has been edited by Pagan (edited 06-12-2000).]

OK, I'm gonna probably start a ruckus with this, but what's wrong with a band's sound changing as they grow? Don't forget, Load was the first album that they really let the other two guys help write. I have to admire them for being able to get down off the pedestal, swallow a little pride and let Kurt and Jason have some real input.

I like all their stuff in different ways. I don't think they "sold out," as they still play what they want to play when they want to play it. They must, or they wouldn't be performing "So What" live. That song is *bound* to offend people.

Metallica has always been "polished." They called themselves the tightest band in heavy metal and it's true. They have always had a more refined sound. Even their early Metal Up Your A$$ stuff is pretty darned polished relative to bands that have gone but the same old tired little club venues.

Just because someone becomes popular doesn't mean they "sold out." I think it's awfully pretentious and self-serving to think that a band must always be the same just so that they appeal to a small minority of listeners. The true sign of real musicians is the ability to grow and learn from other forms of music. You have to be able to incorporate those new learning experiences into your sound, pushing the boundaries more and more. Life isn't just power chords and double-bass pounding. Granted, those things are great, but I was happy to see that Metallica could stretch their musical limits and still be as hardcore as ever when it came to the early stuff. I'm glad to see that they are open-minded when it comes to musical sounds. If you listen to them talk, Cliff would have been all for the new growth, as he is the one that opened the band's eyes to stuff other than just British Death Metal. He would go from Misfits to Shostakovich to Christian Death to lord knows what.

This is all just IMO.

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Everyone? Its only a hand full of people... who don't like Metallica. I adore them... I think its great that they are experimenting and tinkering around with their sound. But for me... the best stuff Metallica has ever done is their old albums:
[list=1]
And Justice For All
Master Of Puppets
Ride The Lighting
Kill 'Em All
[/list=a]
I've always been a fan, and will two... but <u>Load</u> and <u>Re-Load</u> isn't their best stuff... <u>Garage Inc.</u>was awesome... cause they did a great job of bring a lot of great rock songs back into the minds of people... but people bitched about it. With <u>S&M</u> closed minded people are bitching that they are working with symphonies... I think its freaking ORIGINAL!

Now the whole Napster issue is getting a lot of Metallica haters out of the wood-work. DO they have the right to sue... yes they bloody hell do... Its their hard work... and okay... they have money left and right... but they aren't the only artist that doesn't like Napster. To quote Eniemn

I wouldn't necessarily sue them, I'll just kick their ass!


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Metallica are better now?!! Are we not on an 80's message board! As for Napster I think it is OK to download songs just for the purpose of hearing what a certain band sounds like. Then you can go out and buy that cd. I have done that many times myself. If not I would have never found some new amazing bands.

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C-YA

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I think Metallica was going in the right direction with the "Black" album, but they lost it with "Load" and "Reload". Hopefully they have gotten back on track with S&M.

And I while I think it is important that bands try to grow and try new things, it doesn't always work; Queensryche is a perfect example. This is a band that totaly went in the wrong direction. They make a masterpiece with Operation: Mindcrime, and a great follow up with Empire. Then everything else they have put out has been crap.



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To answer your post, Mr. Miata....there's nothing wrong with growing musically. Maybe you don't know what I do for a living, but I've been a musician for 22 years, you're preaching to the already converted.

Growing musically is wonderful, provided it's done in a way such as RUSH has done. They've grown musically, retained their original sound, and stretched the limits of their musicianship WITHOUT losing their core fan base.

Metallica, on the other hand, did NOT grow musically. "Load" is a half-assed attempt at capitalizing on the aternative craze. If you disagree, answer me this...on New York's "K Rock" radio station, which was the only alternative station in NY a few years back, (they've since started adding some other types of rock) Metallica was the only metal band they played, and most of the time it was stuff from "Load". Why then, are they being played on an alternative station?

Then there's Lar's comment in an interview last year..."Metallica never really considered itself heavy metal." WHAT????? That's a slap in the face of all original Metallifans.

As for them always being "polished", you confuse the terms "polished" and "tight". Take KISS for example. Not an extremely tight band, but as polished as you can get. Metallica's earlier recordings were not polished in the least. They were raw, brutal excursions into musical mayhem.

Anyway, this argument could go on and on. I for one, have given up on them. Some others will not. It's all a matter of opinion. You cannot deny, however, that they have lost their fire....as the LAME song off the "Mission Impossible II" soundtrack proves.

Peace,
Pagan

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[This message has been edited by Pagan (edited 06-13-2000).]

I see that not many agree with ,me on this one, but i suppose its a matter of taste and the fact ive only heard some of their old stuff ( Kill em all, some of master of puppets, some of and Justice for all).
I dont know why you think that Metallica sold out when releasing Load, it aint exactly mainstream and has loads of quality songs.
Anyway, one of my friends is buying Master of Puppets so i'll get a better listen to it and get back to ya all on it.


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You are correct Hamish, it's all a matter of taste. I'm just a little jaded. I used to see them when they were playing tiny clubs here in NY opening for Raven before "Kill 'Em All" was even released. It's just not the same. But hey, variety is what makes a horse race, right? All a matter of taste....

Peace,
Pagan

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Mad Dog, I read what you said about Queensryche and agree. You left off "The Warning." Did you like it, I thought it was great. The first tape I ever bought.

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Why then, are they being played on an alternative station?


For the same reason that Insane Clown Posse and emenem are being played. Because "alternative" is a figment of the imagination.

I'm a big RUSH fan, but I don't think they've grown well. I prefer the old stuff, though I do have an appreciation for *anything* with Aimee Mann in it. http://www.80sxchange.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Anybody that saw Gene Simmons poured into a leotard this tour *knows* that KISS isn't tight. http://www.80sxchange.com/ubb/redface.gif

I know the difference between tight and polished. I've always found Metallica to have a raw edge, but I also equate some tightness to a polished sound. If it weren't, everyone would sound like Eugene Chadbourne.

I've been a fan since No Life Till Leather. I'm not really offended by Lars' quotes, as he regularly sticks his feet in his mouth. He's an idiot, AFAIAC, though he's one hell of a drummer. I find myself liking Jason Newstead more and more each day. He's intelligent, well-spoken and doesn't put up with any crap. I like his bluntness as it's backed up with a modicum of brains.

I don't think they've lost their fire. I just think they're mellowing with age, like a fine wine or a classic Irish Stout. They can still kick your a$$ in concert.

When did they get their multi-album contract? I bet it was after the black album. I know that Stephen King's books turned to crap after he got a 6-book contract.

I appreciate each album for what it is by itself. Like I said, I really believe old Metallica and new Metallica are both valid within the specific timeframe. It's apples and oranges to me.

Now a band that I *truly* gave up on was Depeche Mode after they did Songs of Faith and Devotion. Talk about lame crap. http://www.80sxchange.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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I like "The Warning", along with "Rage for Order", but my favourites are "Operation: Mindcrime" and "Empire" by far.

"Take Hold Of The Flame" is an awesome.

Mike

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Just to add another slant on why Mettallica songs were being played on alternatitive stations. Go back to the mid to late 70's. Kiss's "Beth" and AC/DC's "Ride On" were played on Top 40 just as frequently as on rock stations. Noone ever called them sellouts for it. I realize that I am talking about a time when there were less labels in music and perhaps that is the problem now. Too many labels. Let me add one more. There was a time when nearly every station, except country, regularly played "Stairway To Heaven". That song remains the most played song on the radio. Please don't tell me that the mighty Led Zeppelin are sellouts because one of their songs was played on AM radio!

My point is this: let any and all radio stations play any and all rock. If they want to label one song this and another song that, let them. Rock and roll is on the radio where it belongs. All we have to do is enjoy it. And decide to buy a CD if we like what we have heard of it.

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The reason I dont care for Metallica any more, is because they dont play the same, intense music that they once did. To me, FADE TO BLACK is the CD that everybody should own when it comes to METAL. And Justice For All, was a superb album, but that was the end of the Metallica that I personally cared for. The heavy, pounding music. Not the slow stuff off of the Black album, and certainly not the god awful shit they have put out since BLACK. And, a note, JAMES HETFIELD YOU CANNOT "SING". STOP TRYING! Just go back to the growling shit that made you your first 20 or 30 million dollars.

JMO
Ron

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My morals are beyond reproach and I will brutally murder anybody who says different.

My two cents.. Metallica made probably the best heavy metal songs ever. All of us die hard fans really miss that kind of music that nobody else was able to make. They were the only band that could do what they did. Now they're gone. It's dissappointing - that's all.. They're not a metal band anymore and it's just very aggrivating seeing all these young kids loving "Metallica" the way we did - and it's aggrevating because they have no idea what they used to mean to us... It's like their loving so much HALF of what we used to love. Damn, so easy to be loved these days in the music industry...

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Hamish I like you alot buddy,but I am going to hav to disagree. You ask most fans of Metallica from the 80's and they hate Metallica now. I mean I remember in the early 80's Metallica said they would never do a video it is a sellout. Well it is kinda sad, now to see them on TRL in between Brittney Spears and N'Sync. They basically have become a heavy teenybop band in my opinion. The early stuff and I was into them early I hard them on a comliation album before Kill Em All was even released. Kill Em All was a thrash album, but Ride The Lightning showed such an improvemnet in songwriting and they took up to another level but were still hard, and Master of Puppets is one of the alltime great metal albums. After that too me it has gone downhill. I wish they would get back to rocking, because I will buy theri album when they do, but I feel like I am not getting quality from them anymore. Change I can take, but it cannot be forced and I have to enjoy the music still and frankly I don't anymore.

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I see wat your saying scandal, but even if they have sold out their music is great. Credit to all of you who argued against me though. You lot made me really listen to the old stuff, and although their are still songs i consider to be directionless thrash (ie fight fire with fire), they have some really brilliant stuff. I love for whom the bell tolls and master of puppets, and even songs like motorbreath are quite cool.

Cya later.

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When I first joined this board I had a good opinion on Metallica but since then have changed my mind not because of there music but because over the last 8 months James and Lars have showed there true selves on the napster case. Not very nice guys!!!

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Old Chinese Proverb
War doesn't determine who is right, war determines who is left.

Yes indeed Blazie they are turning into what they once hated.

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C-YA
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Hamish I like you alot but i must politely disagree. I was on to Metallica when I heard a demo of them before Kill Em All even came out. You ask most 80's fans and they hate them now. Metallica sadly appeals to the teenybopper crowd now. I mean they have a good song here aand there but hwen they are on TRL live in between N'Sync and Britnnyey Spears that says it all to me. Their last great album was Master of Puppets. Oh and Lars said at one time Metallica WOULD NEVER DO A VIDEO BECAUSE IT WOULD BE COMPROMISING THEIR PRINCIPLES. I anm not putting you down brother, but I have lost most of my respect for them,no offense. I hope they go back to their roots and rock again.

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All I can say is nobody lives forever....

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"All I can say is nobody lives forever...."

Except for Ozzy!


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And Dio

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C-YA
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oh Dio is god - he is an immortal being

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LOL Retroman http://www.80sxchange.com/ubb/smile.gif I am sure you know this already but Dio means God.

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C-YA
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Hey blazie, I would just like to say that its music you should be listening to, not wat the people are lioke off the stage. If theyre nice its a bonus. If you dont like how they act, you should still appreciate their brill music.
Also to all of you who say that Metallica have sold out, check out this:

- If a band are succesful does it mean theyve sold out? NNNNOOOO
- Just cos the band has changed with thew times dont mean theyve sold out either.
-Even if they had sold out(which they havent), they still create excellent music.


Cya Hamish.

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According to Webster's dictionary......<u>sellout</u>- a selling out; betrayal.

<u>betrayal</u>- to fail to uphold [to betray a trust]. see Metallica

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[This message has been edited by Not Man (edited 07-17-2000).]

It gets even more dispicable when you find out, as I did in the papers this weekend, that the company funding the whole Metallica lawsuit is the DIRECT competitor of Napster. Does anyone else see the hypocrisy in that?

Peace,
Pagan

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I did not know that Pagan. That must be okay to have their direct competitor funding the lawsuit. Lars and James are definitely hypocrites.

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C-YA
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Hamish, I have nothing against there music, if I don't like it I just won't listen to it. But what they're doing to the Napster fans is way out of line.

Has anyone heard about Bon jovi joining in on this thing? I heard it on the radio yesterday, don't know how true it is though.

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~~~ 80's ROCK STARS ~~~ (http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/rap/1087/index.html)

Old Chinese Proverb
War doesn't determine who is right, war determines who is left.