Does anyone know what would happen if you never defragged or ran a scandisk on your computer?
I have owned it for 4 years now.

Almost anything could be the result of clutter and bad sectors. Run the scan first to locate any errors and then defrag it. This should speed things up a little. It's like giving your computer a tune up......

Well I tried that. But when it gets hot the computer makes grinding noises. It wont allow me to defrag because when the computer starts getting warmed up the noise starts and then the cmputer freezes.
I am wondering if this is a sign I need a new hard drive.

Your computer will run sooooooo much faster :D

That is the problem it doesn't run at all now.. well it will for about 5 min and then it starts making that noise.

run the scandisk first not defrag. Try booting up in msdos mode and run the command from there.

What you describe sounds like a malfunctioning cooling fan, which also would explain why your computer freezes.

Take the cabinet of your computer and boot it up, watch the little fan located directly atop your processor (you can't miss it). Does it stop just before your computer freezes ??? If it does that's your problem, and I suggest you get yourself a new cooling fan (don't worry they're dirt cheap).

Oh and get yourself Norton Systemworks or Norton Utilities, they have much better system maintenance tools .... Windows Defrag sucks in a big way :)

Okay thanks I will take the computer apart and check to see if it is the fan?
I can only be on the computer for 5 min and then it makes that grinding noise.. i mean.. it is really grinding and then it locks up. I have never defragged my computer.. and never before did a scandisk. I had a perfessional look at it and he said it sounded like the hard drive was going bad.
I had a friend give me a norton utilities cd so once I figure out this problem I will put that in.
I have tried to defrag but can't :(

5 mins is more than enough .... Just "pop the hood", boot it up and look at that fan ... If the fans not working your processor simply overheats. If it is the fan that's the problem, your computer might not freeze after 5 mins when the cabinet's off, coz now the processor get's more cooling. Don't keep using it without the cabinet on, you'll attract tons of dust and shit into the computer, and that's definitely not good :)

If it's the harddisk, get a new one (or maybe get a whole new computer). Don't worry about what's on your harddisk now, a pro can retrieve that for ya :)

Yep. A malfunctioning CPU fan could cause the lock-ups when the CPU gets to hot. 5 minutes would be more than enough. That grinding sound makes me lean a little more towards the hard drive though (unless you have a ball bearing fan).

There is a program that I used to use called PowerDefrag (http://www.powerdefrag.com/download/pd0300.exe) that is pretty useful. It reboots your system and then runs defrag before it boots back up. This will prevent other programs from writing to the disk while it is defragging. You might want to give that a try. If anything can defrag it, PowerDefrag will. Let us know if any of this works.

I am at home now and I tried to find the fan. I can feel it and hear the fan going on inside. So that isn't the problem. I am trying your defrag program I hope it will help. I will let you know. Thanks guys :thumb:

This sounds what i went through 2 weeks ago computer started freezing up and making noise. I though it was the hard drive but it was'nt, the power supply was going bad.Replaced the power supply no more problems.

Yeah, I kind of pondered that thought also, Glenn. Just figured we would start with the easiest to start troubleshooting.

I assume Milani has a tower, so the power supply and the hardrive isn't next to each. It's a matter of popping the hood, boot up the cpu and check exactly where the noise comes from :)

I've had hard disks that were so loud they woke me up. The hard disk wasn't bad, it just had a loud motor. In fact, my old Memorex CD-ROM is the same way.

Grinding noises are most commonly a fan or a hard disk. If you aren't sure what is causing it, just unplug one thing at a time.

For instance, if you suspect the CPU fan, unplug it for a few seconds and power the machine on. You are NOT going to kill the CPU that quick. If the grinding doesn't stop, guess what... that wasn't the problem!

Try this with hard disks as well. Technically, to fire up a machine and see the BIOS information, ALL you need is a CPU and memory installed. Hard disks, floppies, and so forth do not need to be plugged in.

A loud fan/hard disk does not necessarily mean its broken. As motors get older, they sometimes get louder. Also, just because a drive is 4 years old doesn't mean its bad. In fact, at the office we have some old Seagate 540 meg drives (circa 93 or 94) that still work fine. I have seen brand new drives that die as soon as you plug them in. So age is not necessarily the factor.

What I would recommend is instead of using scandisk (it pretty much sucks the big one, it fixes simple errors, but if you have major drive errors, just like Windows XP, its USELESS), find out what brand of drive it is. Most all manufacturers have diagnostic utilities on their web sites. I know Seagate, Western Digital, and many others do.

Generally you download a file and it installs to disk, then you reboot, and the diags run. Twice I've had the WD utilities fix damaged drives that scandisk could not. If the manufacturers utility cannot fix it, scandisk sure as hell can't.

I believe the WD utilities offer both quick and full testing. The full test is usually LONG, so I suggest renting a movie, making dinner, changing the oil in your car, wash and wax, get some laundry done, vacuum, give the cat a bath, read a 1200 page book, then come back and check on it. Did I mention the full test is LONG?

Realistically, you *don't* have to *ever* scandisk or defrag a drive, but you should. Just like you don't *have* to balance the tires on your car. Yes, you should, but your car will still run if you don't. It's just good maintenance.

Scandisk basically looks for simple errors on the drive. Cross linked files, bad sectors, lost allocation units, and so forth. It's just alright, but I've seen it fail to fix lots of errors that the manufacturer diag utilities fixed just fine.

As for defragging, its a good idea, but I never do it. I've had my 60 gig drive for about a year and I have never done it. Runs just fine and its plenty quick for me. I use it for video capturing and many other things.

Defragging *can* make things load software and *slightly* makes your drive last longer, but thats not always the case. Here is an example I used to tell customers to describe what defragging a drive does:

You have 4 city blocks, each block has 4 stores on it, so 16 stores total. You need to go to most of those stores, so you start at one end of the street.

First, you go to block 1, store 2, next you go to block 3, store 1, then block 4, store 4, then block 3, store 1, then block 2, store 3, then back to block 4, store 1, then back to block 1, store 3, and so forth.

Boy... wouldn't it just be easier to go to block 1, hit those stores, then block 2, hit those stores, and so forth, rather than keep backtracking?

Hence, defragging. Rather than jumping back and forth, it does its best to line things up. That comes down to faster speed. Will you always see it? No. It just depends how much is on the drive. If the drive is mostly empty, its pointless. If its pretty full, then its a good idea.

As for the life of the drive, look back at the example. After running back and forth, your getting pretty tired, aren't you? If you had just hit everything in a row, you wouldn't be so tired. Well, when things are lined up, you don't have to run back and forth, so you don't wear out as fast jumping around.

Same thing with defragging.

Also, defragging a drive is *not* going to turn your Pentium II 400 (whatever your machine is) into a Pentium 4 running at 2 ghz. It's just going to return to the originally loading speed because your files are lined up. I've actually seen people defrag their drive then say "man my machine should be WAY, WAY, WAY faster". What? Your expecting V8 performance out of a 4 cylinder? Uhhh no.

Anyway, back to the grinding noises. As has been mentioned, its more than likely a fan or the hard disks. If the noise is constant when the machine is on, its a fan (the power supply or the CPU fan), or the hard disks. Just unplug one at a time and switch the machine on, then off. Use the process of elimination.

You can certainly use a scandisk for what you need, but like I say, scandisk has failed me MANY times, so I try to avoid it. If your drive isn't hosed, it might be enough to get it going. I wouldn't be real concerned with the age though. Even though hardware is outdated 2 weeks after you buy it, most GOOD hardware will last YEARS and YEARS.

We have some ancient Intel ISA network cards in the office dated 1992 that still work excellent.

So many things can cause a machine to lock up. In your case, overheating, not enough CPU cooling, bad memory, corruption or damage to the hard disk, the list goes on.

Finally, even if the hard disk is what is causing the grinding noise, a scandisk is not going to fix it. It can fix some errors, but it won't make the drive stop grinding.

Well I think you have plenty of information now...

Thank you Aaron very informative. I brought the computer to our computer specialist and she checked it out and gave me the bad news. It is my hard drive. Right now I have a 20 GB HP. I have been calling around to check out the prices and well the lowest I could find one was $69.00 but you have to consider the shipping and then the warranty.
So thank you all for your input I greatly apprecaite it. :D

I would be surprised if the drive is dead. We have a few here in the office that sometimes get loud, but they still work fine.

My advice would be to run the manufacturers diagnostic utilities first, then let it tell you.

A drive can look hosed when its not. If the master boot record (MBR), file allocation table (FAT), or anything in sector 0 is screwed, your machine ain't gonna boot from the hard disk.

I would be weary of what any "professional" says. Maybe she is right, but I would always run diagnostics on it.

I don't know this chick, but what I can tell you is that the majority of "professionals" don't fully check things out, they prefer to sell, sell, sell.

If money is not an issue, go get a new drive then. Otherwise, I would see what the factory diagnostics say first. They won't lie to you. I've had at least 2 drives that appeared hosed and any "professional" would have told me they were hosed, until I ran WD_DIAG on them and got both fixed.

Maybe the drive is bad, I don't know... I just know that I would only trust what the factory diagnostics said. Unless of course there are bullet holes in the drive. That speaks for itself.

I'm curious to know what testing she did to determine the drive was bad.

Just some friendly advice...

*EDIT*

I forgot to add something. $69 for a new 20 gig isn't a bad deal, DEPENDING on the brand. Some brands I will never trust again. I only buy Seagate, WD, and IBM. We have used Fujitsu and had good luck with them. I've had too many Maxtors die and their support is pure shit, so I will never own Maxtor again.

Anyway, if that drive really is hosed (I'm *still* skeptical about that), and money is a concern, and you don't mind not getting a new drive, I would crack open the newspaper or even call some local computer shops and see if they have any used 10 gig drives for cheap. A used 10 gig should only run $30-$50 at the most.

Maybe they have one thats been sitting around for a few years and they just want to get rid of it. As long as it fires up, and Windows installs on it, you should be fine.

I've done this before. Saves you a little money... and like I've said, just because hardware is ancient doesn't mean its bad. I've seen 15 year old hard disks fire up and work fine.

Aaron how do you run a diagnostics test?

Tell me like you would a child because I have no clue about computers. I just now how to turn it on and play on the internet. :(

Milani

I am with Aaron in that I would be surprised if it's the hard drive. It's a possibility, but not the best one.

I would take the computer elsewhere for another opinion--it could need something as simple as a thorough cleaning. There are some bad Pentium 4 chips out there (burning out) but that would mean that you would have more problems than you do.

Defragging a drive makes it run better, that is for sure, and I defrag often. I have never had that problem that you are describing.

I would bet almost anything it's overheating. Do you give it room to breathe? Is your CPU stuck in a corner, or near a window where the sun is strong? If it is your harddrive, 69 bucks is a good deal really.

Just for a larf, try pulling the CPU out into the open air and running it.

Originally posted by Milani
Aaron how do you run a diagnostics test?

Tell me like you would a child because I have no clue about computers. I just now how to turn it on and play on the internet. :(

First you will need to know what brand of hard disk it is. This is as easy as cracking the case open and looking at the sticker. I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say its either a Seagate or Western Digital, but it could be anything.

The most common brands are Seagate, WD (as above), IBM, Maxtor, Fushitsu... I mean Fujitsu, Samsung, Hitachi, and possibly a few others. I've seen other companies put their names on them, but most large companies (Dell, Compaq, etc) use third party hard disk makers.

Anyway, once you find the brand, go to their respective web site. I know Seagate and WD are their full names, but the others could be something else. I've seen companies name domain names like www.dellcomputersystems.com (I made that one up)... like anybody is just going to KNOW that.

So once you have found their site, go to their support section, or whatever they call it. Genereally under support, you will find tools for diagnostics. I know WD has MANY of them, but data lifeguard tools is the most common and its really good.

With that, and many others, you download the utility, search for it on your hard disk, then double clicky it and most will pop up a window telling you to insert a blank, formatted disk (I never did understand why they say BLANK, FORMATTED... no shit, if its formatted IT IS BLANK!! duh...), then it installs the diagnostic software on the floppy.

You reboot, it fires up on its own, and gives you a menu with different diagnostics. The one I use for data lifeguard is the extended drive test. It doesn't hurt the drive, it just rigorously tests it for defects.

How about this... open your case and find what brand you have, and if possible, look on the sticker where it says the model number of the drive. Seagate is always STxxxxxx, Western Digital is usually WDxxxxxx, my IBM is ICxxxxxx.

This is all on the sticker.

Find that and I can help you better from there.

What I said above will work, but narrowing it down helps more. Just provide me the brand and model number if you can. It's all written on the sticker on the top of the drive.

I can buy that the computer might be overheating, but it really depends on how much. While mine needs more fans, heres what I have running:

Server tower case, Pentium III 800, standard CPU fan, 5 hard disks, DVD-ROM, CD-ROM, floppy, sound blaster gold, 2 network cards, video capture card, and an AGP video card. I need to put a clip on fan in there (why not get maximum cooling?), but even with only a single fan and a fan on my AGP card, my system never overheats. I'm not saying it doesn't get hot... hell yes. My 7200 rpm drive is hotter than the gates of hell, but it never fails. (God I love my IBM drive!)

The case is closed, sitting beside my desk with no outside fans (although that is soon to change), no close ventilation, and I never have overheating problems.

Components have to get HOT, and I mean HOT before they fail. I have only ever had one fail. My original Voodoo2 card was getting blistering hot while gaming. So hot the colors died and the performance sucked. I bought a fan from 1coolpc, which I still have, put it on, problems went away.

If your machine is dead locking upon boot up, there are many different reasons for it.

A faulty CPU is not one of them. Either the processor is bad, or its not. There is no in between. If it gets too hot, it will run for a few minutes and lock up. You don't have to use a fan, if the heat sink is big enough, that is fine, but you should have a fan anyway.

A hot CPU will lock up a machine, bad memory will, and bad memory slots will. I've seen all 3 happen. If the memory is toast, your machine ain't gonna fire up - AT ALL. I doubt the memory is fried, but it could be bad, and so could the slots. It's rare, but it does happen. The only way (without a tester) to check memory is to put it in another computer. If it works peachy in another machine, and you take the memory out of another WORKING machine and put it in yours and it works, it ain't the slots either. If it fails, its the slots. Again, I doubt this is the problem, just giving some possibilties.

We can entertain the thought of it overheating for a minute. That can be the problem. Giving it ventilation isn't going to fix it, you have to attack the problem. FANS!! I've seen people take the side off their case and put big room fans next to them. Another thing is called the Fan Card. It's a little 2 fan jobbie that plugs into your computer and contains 2 fans. I think I saw it selling online for like $15 or so.

First and foremost, make damn sure the CPU fan is working. It should be spinning at full force. Make sure it is NOT dusty. Computer + Dust = Problems (similar to Marriage + Happiness = False... just kidding, I couldn't resist).

I'm curious though... when did this lock up start happening? Is it every day? Was the computer working perfectly fine before? Has ANYTHING changed at all? Location of the moon, windage, solar eclipse, barometer, wind pressure... anything?

While it could be overheating, I'm thinking its something else. I haven't really read these messages heavily, but if its at least booting up to a point, and freezing BEFORE Windows is completely loaded, I don't think its an overheating problem.

Based on the loose information I have, it sounds like something is wrong with the hard disk, or possibly memory.

Anyway, for now get me the hard disk specs and we'll go from there. These problems are hard to diagnose over the internet.

BTW, my flat rate is $75/hour. Oh yeah.... I was kidding... yeah thats it. :angel:

Originally posted by Milani
Aaron how do you run a diagnostics test?

First, you're going to need to find out who manufactured your HD. I'd be willing to bet it's either a Western Digital or a Maxtor. They just seem most prevalant in mass manufactured systems.

If you are running Windows 98 (or 95 or ME), then do this - RIGHT CLICK on the MY COMPUTER icon on the DESKTOP, and select PROPERTIES from the pop-up menu. Once that window has opened up, click on the "Device Manager" tab and expand the "Disk Drives" section by clicking on the "+" sign. You should see something like "WD" or "Maxtor".

If it is a Wesetrn Digital, you can download the DataLifeguard tools from here - Data Lifeguard (http://melrom.com/files/dlgmaker.zip). If it is a Maxtor, you can get the utility here - Powermax (http://www.maxtor.com/en/support/downloads/files/powermax.exe).

Here are guides on using both utilties:
Data Lifeguard (WD) - Click here. (http://melrom.com/files/wddiag.pdf)
Maxtor - Click here (http://www.maxtor.com/en/documentation/manuals/powermax_guide_en.pdf).

Both of these will give you the same information - bad clusters, bad sectors, partitioning/formatting problems.

If your drive isn't one of these, then let us know what make it is. Chances are good that the manufacturer makes some kind of diagnostic utility.

Yeah that will work too Shakey. I guess I'm just used to opening the case and looking at the sticker.

Hell I've had Windows tell me it was one brand and be wrong. I always loved that.

That's as good as when it says "device is working properly" and the device is BROKEN! Gotta love that!

I'm also willing to bet its WD or Maxtor.

Originally posted by aaron
That's as good as when it says "device is working properly" and the device is BROKEN! Gotta love that!

:lol: Yeah! That's one of my favorites also.

I neraly forgot. There is also a little program that you can get that will give you more system info than you probably ever cared to know. It is called Belarc Advisor (http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html). It's free and really small so you should be able to download it pretty quick.

Well my computer is fixed. Thank you all for your advice it was greatly appreciated.
I bought a new hard drive and it has fixed the problem.

Thanks you guys :thumb: