I need help picking out a good router. I've seen some as cheap as $80 and as high as $500. The reason for getting a router is to be able to interface my laptop (which has only dialup) with my main computer (which has cable modem). Whenever I'm away from home then, I can switch over to dialup (i.e. switch interchangably on my laptop from cable to dialup, depending where I am). What are some good features to look out for? I'm totally clueless as to what the features mean. Does anyone know anything about routers and have any suggestions?

I'm not sure I understand your question David .... It sounds like you want to connect your laptop (which only has a dial up connection) to cable modem thru' a router :confused:

If your laptop has a netcard, you shouldn't need a router, unless you want both your laptop & desktop to be connected via the cable modem, in wich case I'd suggest a switch ....

Anyhho, I'm thoroughly confused here, so let me just say that Cisco routers work just fine, and they shouldn't be too pricey ;)

Boggle, we use a standard 5 port Linksys cable/dsl router. It's a beautiful thing. These devices (whoever you opt for) are pretty comparable. The only thing to watch for is to make sure it's the 5 port and not the one port. If you buy the one port you will also need a hub to allow multiple pc connections.

Sharing cable/dsl connections is really handy. You also gain a local network for game playing if you need it.

Some things to consider:
Make sure the router also acts as a DHCP server. You don't want to have to worry about setting static IP information.
If you use VPN for work, ask your administrators for some input. Not all routers might allow the type of traffic your VPN might require. Or if they do, some configuration of the router will be required. IPSEC pass thru settings often cause problems here.

Generally speaking the routers are fairly easy to configure. Most use a web browser interface for configuration. Simply program your cable account information into the router and it will maintain the connection. Then it shares the connection out to all devices plugged into the router through network cables.

If you really want freedom, plug the router into a wireless network hub, pop a wireless network card into your laptop and surf the internet while walking around the house, sitting in the garden or doing the laundry :)

Here's a link to Linksys routers.
Linksys (http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?prid=433&grid=23)

Originally posted by 80sSmurf
I'm not sure I understand your question David .... It sounds like you want to connect your laptop (which only has a dial up connection) to cable modem thru' a router :confused:

If your laptop has a netcard, you shouldn't need a router, unless you want both your laptop & desktop to be connected via the cable modem, in wich case I'd suggest a switch ....


Hi Nico:)

Right on target:thumb:

That's exactly what I was wanting to do- connect my laptop (dialup) with my desktop (cable modem) through a router. Thanks for the advice:)

I don't even screw with routers for that. I installed sygate. Works fine between my Windows 2000 and a Windows 98 machine. The highest you have seen was $500? Apparently you have never priced a Cisco router before! :D Those can EASILY run into the tens of thousands. They aren't made for home use though. You can, but they are made for enterprise use.

I interpreted the message as the laptop has dial up, but when your home, you want to connect it through the router so it can use cable while your at home. Seems lame to me to connect it through the router to use dial up.

If its just those 2 machines, I would use software. No point in spending hundreds for a router just for connection sharing.

I don't use a router at home. I have a D-link 8 port 10/100 switch and I use sygate. Works just fine. Routers are expensive (the good ones are), and often, overkill.

A few years back, many of us did network gaming using a D-link 8 port 10 mbps hub. Work just fine.

I guess if the money isn't an issue, then go for it. To me that's like spending thousands for a Pentium 4 2.5 ghz machine with 1 gig of ram and a 60 gig hard disk just for word processing.

But if that's what you want.... :)

As for which is the best to buy, check out reviews. Heres my take on the companies:

D-link: I used from for years but I will never buy from them again. Too many bad cards. I once got a shipment at an old job and 2 cards in a row were bad. Do they even test those things? On top of this, my PCI 10/100 card died after 1 1/2 years. My ISA 10 mbps card still works. I've had too many D-link cards go bad. When they work, they are great. My hub and switch are D-link, but I'm done buying from them.

Linksys: Heard both good and bad. I've heard a LOT, and I mean a LOT of complaints about their cheap network cards with the Liteon chipset and how much crap it is. I never buy from them. I've also heard their support SUCKS and their customer service is horribly bad. The only thing I've heard positive on were their switches and routers. I don't know if all of this is true, but I've read dozens of complaints about the network cards. Very few people had anything good to say about them. Who knows...

Intel: Never had a card die yet. We use some of their server cards in our Unix servers. They take a beating. I have an Intel 10/100 PCI at home and it is excellent. We have 10 year old ISA cards at the office that still work. Never owned their hubs or routers before. I've known people who have and they had nothing but good things to say.

3com: Excellent network cards. Bought tons of them used and so far only 1 was bad. Briefly used a 24 port switch from them. Worked awesome!

Never had much experience with other brands. I won't buy generic cards or hubs.

I see it in 2 ways. First the chipset. I don't care if its Intel if they used a crap chipset. It's the chipset that determines the compatibility of the hardware. If you have a cheap chipset, but a high end router, you might as well flush your money. Also, quality of construction. If they used cheap ass circuit boards and just threw it together, it will probably work, but for how long?

As I mentioned above, check reviews. Look on tomshardware, anandtech, and other hardware review web sites. That's how I base a lot of what I buy from.

*edit*

Well that really pisses me off. I had a nice addition on here about reading reviews. As soon as I clicked send, the piece of f**** s*** called Explorer crashed and I lost it.

I'm not going to retype it all, but in part, I said don't base your entire decision off a review. Some reviewers will mention all the good features of the hardware, then one something really lame they don't like, and because of that one thing, they will never recommend it to anybody.

I've seen reviewers talking about great network cards, but it didn't one wake on lan, or remote management, and because of that, it sucked and he wouldn't recommend it.

I look at it this way: do I need it? Will I ever use it? If not, then that card is just fine. Who cares if he doesn't like it?

So if you find reviewers trashing something because of certain features missing, or something on the hardware is placed in an unusual location, how big of a deal is that to you?

Originally posted by Bogie
.... surf the internet while walking around the house, sitting in the garden or doing the laundry :)


Erh .... Bogie ?? .... You do realize that you don't actually have to sit next to your washer while it does it's thing right ??? ;) :lol:

Back on topic; Looks like Aaron & Bogie has this one well covered.

BTW don't your ISP supply a router ?? Mine does ... I got a Cisco 667 with my ADSL connection :p

Aaron, what is sygate? I've never heard of it. I assume from what you have said a good network card is what to look into first when matching it with a relatively good router.

Nico, I checked with my ISP and they don't supply routers, only modems.

Originally posted by Boggle
Aaron, what is sygate? I've never heard of it. I assume from what you have said a good network card is what to look into first when matching it with a relatively good router.

Nico, I checked with my ISP and they don't supply routers, only modems.

Sygate is Windows 98/NT/2000/XP/etc internet connection sharing software. I use an OLD version (3.11) at home. Works just fine for what I do. For the older versions, you only need to install it on the server (the machine connected to the internet). You can install it on workstations, but I never do.

The most I have connected at home were 3 machines, but we also use Sygate at the office where we have had up to.... hmmm probably 7 or 8 (that I know of) machines connected at once. I don't know how many it supports, but since you can use IP addresses from 2...254, that leaves about 252 possibilities.

Anyway, you can use it through dial up, DSL, cable, and so forth. It's simple and it works just fine. At home I use my machine as the gateway and my g/fs machine is the workstation (so to speak), but at the office, we have a dedicated Pentium 133 as the gateway, and all the machines connect to it via a hub. Since all the machine ever does is act as a gateway, a Pentium 133 has more than enough power.

I don't know if you can still get 3.11, the last I saw they were up to version 5 or so and they look and work differently.

I just keep 3.x around along with a crack since they don't sell it or support it. I don't mind cracking it since its ancient (but it works) and I *personally* don't like the new version.

All you need to do with the older sygate (I have installed the newer versions, but I honestly don't remember if you have both server and client side copies) is make sure Windows networking is up and going, install the server side, configure it to IP address 192.168.0.1, then configure the workstations as .2, .3, .10, or whatever you want, make their gateway and dns 192.168.0.1, and your set.

If your Windows networking is up and running, the typical sygate install takes about 5 minutes.

There is another connection sharing utility out there (I forget the name of it) that I tried, but I didn't like it. The software built into windows just plain sucks. Under XP it worked just alright, but under 2000 it never worked.

I have a dlink 10/100 switch connecting our machines. It's not a high end network, but it does just fine for us.

Personally I wouldn't waste my money on a high end router for internet connection sharing unless you are planning on HEAVY networking and want the built in firewall, connection sharing, port mapping (if it does that), and possibly other features.

While this does sound nice, almost all of this can be done through free or cheap software. There are some free sharing utilities out there, Windows 2000/XP has them built in, and so does 98 (although I never got it to work), Zonealarm is a free firewall, some sharing utilities even have DHCP servers.

This is why I say I think its a waste of money. Sure its cool to say "check out my cool router!", but to me that's like buying a BMW just to get groceries. That's overkill.

Just haven't had enough personal experience with routers to have a sound opinion. Sounds like these guys have. Like Aaron said. Just start doing some research and find what will meet your needs.

The first thing I would do is look at a good network card. I will only buy Intel, 3com, and other high end network cards. I don't mean you need the advanced server network card costing $100, but most cards $30 or more are great.

A cheap $12 dlink will work fine, but I've had too many of them die and won't buy from them again.

Also, consider the speed. The majority of DSL/cable providers don't offer over a 10 mbps connection. For a long time I was running my DSL over a 10 mbps network card. Plenty fast.

Now I'm not saying you should definitely get that, but always consider what you need it for. Even if you are network gaming, you still don't need fiber optic 1000 gbit speed. I played network gaming with some old co-workers using 5,6,7 machines all running windows 98. Some of us had 10/100 cards, but the hub was just a 10 mbps. It did perfectly fine. No problems at all.

Sometimes you will find a 10 mbps card for $15 and a 10/100 card for $20. Might as well just spend the extra $5.

Anyway, shop around and check out reviews. I was going to buy a 3com until I found out Frys didn't carry them. I ended up buying an Intel Inbusiness 10/100 card for $30. Works excellent.

I still think a router for connection sharing is mass overkill. My friend did the same thing to connect 2 machines. In the end he rarely used it. He mostly wanted the router to say "hey look at me, I have a router!" Big f------ deal. He could have done it through software and MUCH cheaper, but he likes to buy expensive hardware that he doesn't need.

If you are set on a router, go for it. To me, buying a router to connect 2 computers is like my BMW theory. Why spend $5,000 on a BMW to get groceries when a $500 car does it just fine?

Also, most isps do not supply ANY hardware, at least in the U.S. Verizon did supply me the DSL modem/router since I was using their proprietary service. AT&T/Cox/Comcast/etc will usually supply their cable modem as well. But most ISPs will not give you a network card or other hardware. If you get DSL through a local provider, the phone company will usually supply hardware for you, but not the ISP.

My dial up providers never gave me anything except internet access.

Aaron, I checked out Sygate's website. They have a version 4.2 out for home networking. Couldn't find the 3.11 version. I assume this software takes the place of a router. I also assume the only other thing I would need is a network card. From what I could interpret from thieir product line, you can network 3 stations on the one package. Is this 3 stations altogether maximum? Is Sygate still the way to go? If not, what other companies do you recommend? Will I need a network card before installing this?

The package I just mentioned costs around $50 with a one-year upgrade protection plan.

Interesting thread, since I'm also currently thinking about a solution for our computers to link them together.

I'm toying around with two ideas (the software/hub solutions on the "working" computer isn't that attractive to me):

- building up a router with an old PC, a hub and the respective software:
Sounds pretty nice, especially with the knowledge that I have coincidentally a few older machines (P75/P100/PII-350) still sitting in the darkness of my cellar. And, I have also a few networking cards at home - all I need is a hub and a few cables.
I have also found a special software, fli4l (http://www.fli4l.de/e_index.htm), but I need to spend a bit more time to get behind the concept (slow learner at presence :D).
The reason why I'm spending some more thoughts on this solution instead of already having the whole thing up and running is that the PC will surely consume more power in comparision to a DSL-router - calculated over the year, this will sum up to a significant amount (I'm not even talking about the space I don't have to stash that PC away - with two active cats and a small apartment, you have to think twice about it ;)).

- buying an DSL-router:
Sounds pretty easy for me...buy it, connect it, configurate it, go.
Plus, I have all I need in a single case, probably a hardware firewall (depending on how much cash I'm willing to spend), less power consumption, less space needed. Only problem here...my "willingness" to spend that money, since this solution is more expensive.

Ah...I will bother myself with these questions when I'm back from Denmark. :lol:

Originally posted by Boggle
Aaron, I checked out Sygate's website. They have a version 4.2 out for home networking. Couldn't find the 3.11 version. I assume this software takes the place of a router. I also assume the only other thing I would need is a network card. From what I could interpret from thieir product line, you can network 3 stations on the one package. Is this 3 stations altogether maximum? Is Sygate still the way to go? If not, what other companies do you recommend? Will I need a network card before installing this?

The package I just mentioned costs around $50 with a one-year upgrade protection plan.

When I was looking for internet connection sharing software a few years ago, I found several. My friend had used Sygate and we also use it at work. Both him and work used 3.x, and I was able to find a copy of 3.11 a few years back, so I use that.

I have also tried version 4.2 (or something like that), but I didn't like it at all, so I went back to 3.11 instead. They don't support it or sell it anymore, so that's why I found a serial key. Not that I don't think its worth the money, I just didn't like the new version, so I went back to what I liked.

The only other utility I know of is wingate. I haven't touched that in at least 4 years, so I don't remember anything about it. There were 2 others I tried a few years back, but I can't even remember the names of them. Just go to google and search for internet connection sharing software, or even type in "sygate", then follow the directory link to find other utilities.

I'm not going to say sygate is the best. For basic dial up/dsl/cable use, it works fine. My 3.11 version only supports DHCP (which is optional), some kind of enhanced security (although the document doesn't say what), and a few other features that don't mean a whole lot. Basically, this old version is simple and shares your connection. That's all I need.

I think 4.2 has more features, but its literally been years since I looked at it, so I don't remember.

I SERIOUSLY doubt sygate will have version 3.x available since even my copy is years old. You can still find it online, but you probably won't find it on their web site.

As for taking the place of a router, that depends. Since I don't use 4.2, I can only speak for 3.11. SOME of the features of a router are supported, but not real great. DHCP, firewall, and some security measures are supported.

A firewall generally gives you more features, but good firewalls run hundreds of dollars. If you buy connection sharing software at $50 (like you say), you can get zonealarm which is a firewall for free. Sygate has built in DHCP if you want it. Personally, I set all my IP addresses manually.

All I'm saying is you don't need to spend hundreds when you can do basically the same thing MUCH cheaper. Sure routers are great, but if you don't really need it and an alternative method is almost as good and cheaper, why not use it?

Sygate works on most all internet connections. Right now mine is using dial up (since I don't have dsl anymore), but it worked fine on my dsl a few months ago.

Yes you will need network cards no matter what. Something has to connect yourself and other computers. With my 3.11, my machine has 2 network cards. One was for my dsl, the other was to connect mine and my g/fs computer. Now that I'm back to dial up, the dsl network card isn't being used, but I still have the other network card in so both computers can talk.

I don't know if they are now setting maximum workstations depending on your license. We have used up to 7 or 8 at work. They might be limiting you now. You would have to ask them.

Anyway, sygate is just what I use because I had experience with it before and it is simple and does the job. Is it the best? Not necessarily. Try a few out and see what you think. Most all of them give a 30 day trial.

I just think a router for something as simple as connecting 2 or 3 machines to the internet is overkill. If you do network gaming, all you really need is a 10 mbps hub. That's how I did it for a few years and I played 6 or 7 people at a time.

Routers can be nice, but the good ones aren't cheap and I always try to find ways to do things cheaper. I almost bought a dlink router for $120 (or so) because it had the connection sharing and a firewall. Then I found sygate 3.11 (old, outdated, unsupported) and zonealarm (free firewall). I just found a key for sygate, installed zonealarm, and saved myself $120.

Originally posted by wavemaster
- buying an DSL-router:
Sounds pretty easy for me...buy it, connect it, configurate it, go.
Plus, I have all I need in a single case, probably a hardware firewall (depending on how much cash I'm willing to spend), less power consumption, less space needed. Only problem here...my "willingness" to spend that money, since this solution is more expensive.


Yeah, that's why I do it Wave. I should note here that there is absolutely NO REASON to go and by any expensive Cisco equipment. Believe me, nobody wants to configure routing tables just to share an internet connection. :D

The 5/4 port dsl/cable routers act as a local hub, DHCP server and as a router to your internet connection. They are also easy to configure really. They are easily had for a couple of hundred bucks. If you already have a hub set up, you can pick up the single port router to plug into it for even less. I believe there are also wireless versions but I have never tried these. I've only used a wireless hub connected to the router. Imagine a home network without cables. Argghhhh, I'm starting to drool now. :D

I'm curious about Smurfy's ISP issuing a router with the modem though. Is it intended to allow you to share the connection Smurf? Or is it somehow required to make the connection work? I know that we do not offer any routers with our DSL service. I'm intrigued.

Again, I just don't understand why you would spend a couple hundred bucks just to share an internet connection.

That's like buying a Lexus just to get groceries. Overkill.

Thought I would bump up this thread again:D

Thanks to everyone so far for their advice and input:thumb:

I have one (maybe two;) ) questions:

1)I assume I still get my IP address information from my cable ISP (since cable capabilities is what I want from my laptop, which currently has dial-up [by a different ISP] )when I go to configure/setup my router.

2) I read in the instructions where there's infrastructure and ad-hoc structure. I assume I go with the ad-hoc structure since it's for home use.

Here's what I ended up getting:

Linksys 4-port 10/100 wireless router
Linksys USB Adapter

Both laptop and desktop have Win98SE operating systems.

One other question: when I go to check email on my laptop (after installing the router and adapter), will I get the junk-filtering capabilities provided by my cable ISP (rather than dialup ISP)?

Originally posted by Boggle

1)I assume I still get my IP address information from my cable ISP (since cable capabilities is what I want from my laptop, which currently has dial-up [by a different ISP] )when I go to configure/setup my router.

2) I read in the instructions where there's infrastructure and ad-hoc structure. I assume I go with the ad-hoc structure since it's for home use.

Here's what I ended up getting:

Linksys 4-port 10/100 wireless router
Linksys USB Adapter

Both laptop and desktop have Win98SE operating systems.

One other question: when I go to check email on my laptop (after installing the router and adapter), will I get the junk-filtering capabilities provided by my cable ISP (rather than dialup ISP)?

1) Yes. The router should offer DHCP to supply your other machines with IP addresses.
2) That's not a question. :)

Good luck with Linksys. After I read TONS of complaints about their customer service (as in AT&T, it doesn't exist), I decided I will never buy anything from them. Maybe their hardware is great, but service just sucks. Although Dlink is no better.

Your other question... that totally depends on your ISP. Even if they offer it, I wouldn't rely on it. Get your own. I rarely trust anything an ISP supplies me.

Strike out on your own for filtering. That's the only way to go.

[i]Originally posted by aaron
1) Yes. The router should offer DHCP to supply your other machines with IP addresses.
2) That's not a question. :)

Good luck with Linksys. After I read TONS of complaints about their customer service (as in AT&T, it doesn't exist), I decided I will never buy anything from them. Maybe their hardware is great, but service just sucks. Although Dlink is no better.


Yep, Aaron's right. When you configure your router with your cable access account info, it will obtain an IP from your provider and maintain a connection that it shares to computers on your local side of the router. Configure the DHCP service on your router to provide IPs to the local side of your network. Something to mention in case it matters to you Boggle - The computers on your local network will not have valid IPs from your ISP. Only your router will maintain a valid IP on your provider's network.

As far as Linksys service support goes, I can't comment. I know there is always a chance of having bad hardware but in all the times I've setup local LANs using their high-speed routers, I've never had to call them once :)

In other words, once I hook up the router, it will automatically find an IP address from my provider for me to use, rather than having to manually enter it when I go to configure the router.